To the One In His Parents’ Basement…

Yes, that’s you Samir Khan.

I invite you to read the statements of the ulamaa who truly have knowledge of this deen and not the bloodthirsty Khawarij that you take from. The mischief making Khawarij are a deviant sect that declares the one making a sin to be a kaafir, declares the blood of the Muslims to be halaal, rebels against the Muslim authority, and are generally stark raving mad.

The ulamaa have denounced and refuted your sect time after time. Please read and study instead of posting rants and trying to convince the people that Islam is a blood thirsty religion. I would be glad to engage you based upon the posts of the ulamaa

33 Comments so far

  1. alkhilafahinshaAllah on November 9, 2007

    Actually you are the Khwaarij because while you are ratting out and desiring the destruction of other Muslims for not following Islam the way you do, these other Muslims who believe in the Quraan and Sunnah’s undeniable branch of Islam called Jihaad to which hundreds of ayaahs and hadith are dedicated, are only struggling to defend the honor of people like you all over the world (because the majority of Muslims have your mentality and need to be saved from such diluted Islaam and reformed to the rich real Islaam that doesn’t just read ayaahs with dead limbs and deaf ears and blind eyes, but follows them through action to bring the Qur’aan and Sunnah to life). You want them out while they’re defending your so called religion, subhanAllah, may Allah swt have mercy on our souls.
    And btw: you’re the one calling these Muslims as members of a sect while they call themselves members of the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaah, so your rumors, name-calling, and immature behavior (how old are you, in your 40’s or 50’s) will be dealth with Allah swt inshaAllah.

  2. inshallahshaheed on November 10, 2007

    Assalam Alaikum,

    We will only accept a debate on the basis of:

    a. You show proper adab. Showing bad manners is not the way of the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wassallam), Sahaabah, Salaf & Khalaf.

    b. You reword your post here and change the insulting remarks which only the Kuffaar are repeating such as, “Parent’s basement.” And the Kuffaar repeat this statement because they do not know nor understand this Deen.

    Finally, it is haraam to declare a Muslim as a Kharji when he doesn’t have all of the attributes of the Khawaarij. Calling someone a Kharji is equal to making Takfeer on him since the wealth and blood of the Khawaarij is halaal for the Muslims. Do you agree on this?

    One of the attributes of the Khawaarij is that they are harsh against the Muslims and merciful to the disbelievers. If you knew us well, you would know that we are harsh against the disbelievers and merciful with the believers. The same goes for the majority of the Mujaahideen today who are fighting the Crusaders & Apostates & their allies.

    Takfeer is only accepted if the evidences prove that a person is a Kaafir. If the evidences are weak or based off of Taqleed, then the saying of the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wassallam), as is reported by Bukhari and Muslim, “He who says to his brother ‘O Disbeliever’, then it returns upon one of them.” - is applied to them.

    Wallahu ‘Alam.

    If you agree to these conditions, then we will most happily discuss the issues of Jihaad with you.

    Jazakullah Khair

  3. Abdur-Rahman M on November 10, 2007

    Mr Khan,

    The people you are praising kill many Muslims

  4. Sameer Parker on November 10, 2007

    a. You show proper adab. Showing bad manners is not the way of the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wassallam), Sahaabah, Salaf & Khalaf.

    I agree that the above people show good adab, however, you are trying to call people to Islam by praying that they are destroyed and that their children are maimed?? Is this good adab? How about we call the people to Islam? Why not some friendliness instead of all the unproductive hatred? But I digress

    b. You reword your post here and change the insulting remarks which only the Kuffaar are repeating such as, “Parent’s basement.” And the Kuffaar repeat this statement because they do not know nor understand this Deen.

    Am I to understand that you are saying that I am a Kaafir simply because I said that you live in your parent’s basement? Several Muslim Bloggers have said as much because it was in the NY Times. If you don’t live in the basement, then I stand corrected. Is it the attic? Either way, unlike you, I have a wife, children and responsibilities. Yes, those things are from Islam though you may hate it. I suspect that if you had any manly responsibilities at all, that you would not be upon this madness. Yet, you are debasing Muslims who are working every day, taking care of their families and trying to raise their children as Muslims for not joining the blood thirsty renegades yet YOU are living in the comfort of your parent’s home with no responsibilities at all. You feel that you are “doing something” by spending hours posting pictures of gore and bloodshed, while the same people you debase WORK, are establishing (and donating to) masjids, improve their communities and other good works, and inviting people to Islam in their free time. If your parents weren’t working, but instead sat on the computer all day, then how would they feed you? So stop calling us to mischief and irresponsibility. I digress, but I wanted to throw that out there for you to think about.

    Finally, it is haraam to declare a Muslim as a Kharji when he doesn’t have all of the attributes of the Khawaarij.

    I declare to you that the (real) ulamaa of this deen have declared your heros to be from the KHAWARIJ of our times. They declare the blood of Muslims to be permissible (and REGULARLY spill it) they make broad based takfeer and they spread mischief and evil in he earth (like flying planes into buildings, blowing up markets, killing, etc). They are mischief makers, sinners and criminals.

    Calling someone a Kharji is equal to making Takfeer on him since the wealth and blood of the Khawaarij is halaal for the Muslims. Do you agree on this?

    Not necessarily and there is disagreement on whether or not the Khawaarij are Kufaar. However, there is no disagreement over the permissibility of fighting and killing them if necessary. We first try to get them to repent and leave off their evil as the ulamaa are trying to do even now by educating these people.

    One of the attributes of the Khawaarij is that they are harsh against the Muslims and merciful to the disbelievers.

    Right, and your heros in their speeches are very harsh against the Muslims and declare them to be Kufaar and the spilling of their blood to be permissible. Your heros have declared that the likes of Al-Albani, Ibn Uthaymeen, Ibn Baz and many others are kufaar. Do you agree with this? The very people you love seem to hate the Muslims and kill them relentlessly. According to the arguments of your heros, they believe that it is permissible to kill me and my children. Where is the mercy? Where is the kindness?

    If you knew us well, you would know that we are harsh against the disbelievers and merciful with the believers. The same goes for the majority of the Mujaahideen today who are fighting the Crusaders & Apostates & their allies.

    What fantasy land do you live in? Have you seen the horrendous acts of killing these Bandits have done and Muslims (and non-Muslims)? What do you say about the killings in Morocco, Algeria, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Spain, UK, and other places? The people responsible for these acts are not to be called “Mujahideen”. We refer to them as mischief makers, sinners, criminals and people upon misguidance. These are not my words, but the words of those who have studied this deen better than YOU or I. Leave this mischievous and deviant way that you are upon

    Takfeer is only accepted if the evidences prove that a person is a Kaafir. If the evidences are weak or based off of Taqleed, then the saying of the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wassallam), as is reported by Bukhari and Muslim, “He who says to his brother ‘O Disbeliever’, then it returns upon one of them.” - is applied to them.

    This is a red herring as I have not made takfeer.

    Again, look at the words of the ulamaa that I have provided for you and I ask you to leave off the endorsing of mischief making in the name of Islam

  5. Imam Johari Abdul Malik on November 10, 2007

    These misguided individuals killed 59 schoolchildren in Afghanistan. Is this what they call “jihad”??

  6. pete on November 10, 2007

    All is permissible in the service of Allah, eh? Seems like you can map logic to any point you want if it serves your God. But what if you are not really worshipping Allah or God but are instead worshipping your own reflection? Perhaps you should form a shrine to yourself in your parent’s basement, call yourself Allah and be done with it. The ironic thing about your argument is that if your version of Islam is correct, then Bush’s war is justified, because Islam is a debased and violent religion. If Sameer’s version of Islam is correct, then Bush’s war is an act of violence that should have been avoided in favor of peace. So, I guess you are a Bush supporter - you are certainly advancing his agenda.

  7. alkhilafahinshaallah on November 10, 2007

    Assalam Alaikum

    I apologize for calling anyone a Khawarij (may Allah forgive me), It’s natural disposition to give people back a taste of their own medicine. To pete:

    When Allah swt has said that the Muslims will divide into 73 sects, only one following the original true religion of Islam and only that group being accepted due to its full submittance, and since Allah the Most High states in the Qur’aan that the truth is distinct from falsehood, the brother has all the right in the world to take all precautions and to put his full confidence in the Qur’aan and Sunnah rather than in our baseless arguments.

  8. inshallahshaheed on November 11, 2007

    Assalam Alaikum,

    Okay so we take it as if you are not going to follow the guidelines.

    We just saw a whole bunch of disgusting assumptions that you wish for regarding us (i.e., which you are hoping is our condition). So we are not going to bother discussing anything with you till you follow the Sunnah in Adab, Akhlaaq etc.

    So sad that a grown man, married & has children, and who claims to follow ‘Ulama, does not even have the proper Adab which a man much younger to him is calling him to.

    Good luck in your “refutations” full of Taqleed and Irjaa’ :)

    By the way, you and your Saudi Salafi’s (aka Talafi’s) can make good use of time by going here:

    http://salafiyyah-jadeedah.tripod.com/

  9. Sameer Parker on November 11, 2007

    I find it amusing how you refer to yourself in the ‘royal we’.

    May Allah guide you and the Baby Killing Bandits you love so much that are making chaos on the earth and spilling the blood of Muslims (and non-Muslims)

  10. Walaa wal Baraa on November 11, 2007

    Every single time you liberal limp-wristed Muslims come down on Khan, people come up and refute his detractors for him! Who’s coming to defend YOU limp wrists without being paid by the Saudi throne? No one is paying me, and khan has already refused to debate the wrong way for fear of being those described in the Qur’an as liking discord and arguments. Yet, I and others pop up to back up what he said.

    How about we call the people to Islam? Why not some friendliness instead of all the unproductive hatred? He has prayed for destruction of the wicked, not the deceived. He has prayed for destruction of the aggressors who fight us while when I travel to the islands of Barbados and Jamaica some of the people can’t wait for ALL of America to fall overnight. As far as they’re concerned their kinsmen in America can return home while the Americans would finally “get what they deserve.” In Jamaica a growing number of them pray for ALL the white world to fall. Europe, Australia, England, Canada, America; and they don’t care about who gets caught in it. Khan prayed for the destruction of the ones responsible for OUR OWN destruction! Give him a break.

    Either way, unlike you, I have a wife, children and responsibilities. Yes, those things are from Islam though you may hate it. I suspect that if you had any manly responsibilities at all, that you would not be upon this madness. I also have a wife and children. I’m telling you Khan is right and you’re mistaken. If he married and had children only to find that his wife thinks like you and does not believe in opposing tawagheet, then you’d have said he was stupid for marrying her. He must be careful about who he marries, but he never denied the validity of getting married! You go on like he’s been running from marriage and family! Yet, you are debasing Muslims who are working every day, taking care of their families and trying to raise their children as Muslims for not joining the blood thirsty renegades yet YOU are living in the comfort of your parent’s home with no responsibilities at all. If he’s unmarried then why is he wrong for living with his parents? If he was married and he lived with his parents for a term then what would be wrong with that? If his parents aren’t complaining then why are you? People always use that same point to detract him and fail to prove him wrong with real evidences from Qur’an and Sunnah. So he’s still winning!

    …while the same people you debase WORK, are establishing (and donating to) masjids, improve their communities and other good works, and inviting people to Islam in their free time. If your parents weren’t working, but instead sat on the computer all day, then how would they feed you? Number one, how do you know he’s not working and feeding himself? You think his parents would let him sit idle at the age of 21 if he lives under their roof? Number two, he never knocked Muslims for working for a living! And now let’s look at the other list of things you say the Muslims are doing that he attacks, whom he actually did not attack. That list is that they;
    1. WORK (your caps, not mine)
    2. are establishing (and donating to) masjids
    3. improve their communities and other good works
    4. and inviting people to Islam in their free time.

    Parker, I don’t know if you live in the US or not, but I have been there many times and have lived there before. I know the country and I now know the American Muslim community, too. It’s a damn joke! The Islam there is a damn joke once you learn about two things; tawheed al hakimiyah and walaa wal baraa. They have good intentions but they really think they can have the best of the dunya in America without compromising their tawheed. They really think Allah won’t test them with hardship, hunger, loss of wealth, and even loos of children! They think Allah will grant them all the ease in this life and still give them jannah in the hereafter! Back to your list…
    1. WORK. All of us have to deal in something haram to do it. All of the jobs are under kaffir laws that defy Allah and His Shariah! A doctor who always refuses to do haram will eventually lose his license and it’s a guarantee! A taxi driver who refuses to take fares to bars or strip clubs might as well resign! I looked at almost every type of work there and found not one to be independent of something haram! The most common way of working for Muslims where I lived and worked was to open gas stations and sell the haram. On my last business trip there it was still the same! If they can work with no dealings in haram, hamdulillah! If they cannot, what good is it to work?
    2. are establishing (and donating to) masjids What kind of masajid? How are they funding them? I’ll tell you… with proceeds from pornography, intoxicants, interest, cigarettes, pork products… evrything that is haram in the Shairah and still legal in the country! Khan and his fellow bloggers have taught me more in two posts than I ever learned in ALL of the khutbahs I ever went to in America or in my country. And I went to all of them unless I was sick! He, unmarried and in his parents’ basement has taught us more than the married imams who are paid by boards of Muslim liquor-sellers that pay them to NOT condemn haram earnings! And since there are multiple authors of the blog who don’t mind him living in his parents house, then why do YOU care if it’s not even wrong in Islam?
    3. improve their communities and other good works Then why are the communities still suffering and in-fighting about things that are clear! What effect have these good works had on the communities if they are more important than what the Inshallahshaheed blog calls to! It’s clear as day that all the good works done for the communities of non-Muslims are only taken as public relations efforts! Muslims are disadvantaged and they know it so they will never be impressed by these good works until we also have bravery if not complete power! The kindness of the brave is always more impressive than the kindness of the scared, and the kindness of the powerful always communicates a message that the weak cannot communicate with their own kindness. Islam is here to dominate and not be dominated, you know this already, so be glad they’re saying it. When Islam dominates over the US and my country alike you’ll see how much more impressed the kuffar become by the same acts of kindness! You’ll see them coming in droves to accept, and it won’t just be the poor and broken of the society. You’ll see the leaders and the wealthy coming in who will take the victory of Islam into other places with dawah AND with force!
    4. and inviting people to Islam in their free time. For those who listen and accept now when the heat is on, that is good and they are the better than those who accept later when the mujahideen remove the barriers to Islam. But what I said in number 3 explains what must happen after a time like this when dawah has attracted all of the worthwhile people to Islam it can attract. Let’s be honest and admit there are no more ‘champions’ entering into Islam anymore. Dawah has done almost all it can do now in your country. Tell those Muslims who are calling to Islam in their free time to come into the Bahamas. We’re poor here, but we listen and we do not hate Muslims like the white Americans do. We won’t refuse to buy from a Muslim merchant just because they don’t sell alcohol or such haram. Oh wait! You can’t do that because we’re not a rich country and you won’t make as much money here, right? What about the Indian reservations right there in your country. I went to install a server at a hotel in one and they had never met a Muslim before! All they knew was what television told them about it. Why aren’t Muslims going there and giving dawah? Because they’re poor and disadvantaged? Or is it because they’re a conquered people and you want the conquerors to accept Islam and take the shortcut to victory? And to what Islam are these Muslims calling the people? The kind that has no walaa wal baraa, no Shariah, and no jihad? Is that it? If Bush accepted that kind of Islam that’s being preached there right now then nothing would change for the better!
    Sorry for talking so much but someone had to say it! Now I’ll let Allah’s Book do the talking for me….
    3:119 Here you are, those who love/like them, and they do not love/like you, and you believe with The Book, all of it, and they met you, they said: “We believed.” But when they are alone, they bite off the very tips of their fingers at you in their rage. Say: “Perish in your rage; Allah knows well all the secrets of the heart.”

  11. Abdur-Rahman M on November 11, 2007

    You people talking about ‘irjaa’ are the same ones that viciously attack a new Muslim for making a mistake, shout him down and make him repeat his shahadah.

    You people paint with a broad brush and say that EVERY masjid in the US is funded with the haraam. That is oppression and an ubsurd statement. I suppose you all think that every single one of us are kufaar and that is why you all praised the 9/11 attacks in which MUSLIMS (people I assume you declare to be non-Muslim) also died

    You people are sick and blood thirsty

  12. the_truth on November 12, 2007

    This discussion of the minutia of interpretations of various religious texts and scholars totally misses the big picture:

    People like Samir Khan DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD.

    It is completely apparent from their actions and words that they don’t believe in God. A true believer doesn’t sit around writing a hand-wringing blog hoping that a bunch of people get killed: if he actually had a transcendental relationship with God, he would neither concern himself with something so insignificant, nor would he be defaming God as he does.

    A true believer would have absolute confidence in the unrivaled power of God and God’s judgment. God is all powerful; to claim that you’re “doing God’s work” by writing some silly blog is completely heretical. First, it’s heresy to claim that you know God’s will. Second, it’s heresy to claim that God is so weak and pathetic that he desperately needs your blog.

    If you had a transcendantal relationship with God, the last thing you’d be doing is sitting in your parents’ basement (or wherever) wringing your hands about what’s going on down here on Earth. What is a few years on this planet versus an eternal life with God?

    The same is true for the people you call disbelievers. If they don’t believe and they aren’t acting in accordance with God’s teachings, it’s not your concern: God will deal with it. Any punishment you (heretically) claim to be dealing to them in the name of God is so insignificant as compared to what God is capable of over eternity, that a true believer wouldn’t even waste a moment of his time worrying about the disbelievers.

    Finally, there’s this notion that is popular among those who claim to be fighting jihad that the US or West is a “threat to Islam.” Yet another heretical statement and further proof that these people don’t believe in God. God is all powerful: the US could not possibly do anything to harm him. Such a notion makes absolutely no sense - the idea that a country here on Earth could be even the slightest threat to the all-powerful God.

    A true believer would have complete confidence in God’s ability to carry out his own will on his own, yet people like Khan are so obvisouly insecure in their faith.

    So before you go hoping for more bombings (which kill more Muslims than non-Muslims), first you might want to perform some introspection into your own disbelief.

  13. Baraa Business on November 12, 2007

    These misguided individuals killed 59 schoolchildren in Afghanistan. Is this what they call “jihad”??
    I didn’t meant ignore your question, I just really don’t know about this. Where can I read more on it?
    You people talking about ‘irjaa’ are the same ones that viciously attack a new Muslim for making a mistake, shout him down and make him repeat his shahadah. The authors of Inshallahshaheed only called one new Muslim an apostate, and that was for taking his shahahda and then remaining in command of troops in the US army to fight Muslim in Afghanistan. Had they NOT called him a kaffir muratd in light of that knowledge, they’d have become kaffirs themselves.
    And who is ‘you people’?
    You people paint with a broad brush and say that EVERY masjid in the US is funded with the haraam. That is oppression and an ubsurd statement. I suppose you all think that every single one of us are kufaar and that is why you all praised the 9/11 attacks in which MUSLIMS (people I assume you declare to be non-Muslim) also died That’s putting words in my mouth, I don’t know that every masjid is funded with haram and would not say that, but I will say that the ones of which I know are funded with it, and the exceptions of which I knew always, always, always, ALWAYS had inferior facilities and had to close later. I never said you all were kuffar. Especially you! I saw how you refused to call the Nation of Insoles muslims because of their open, obvious disbelief. So some I would call kuffar for obvious reasons that we can all see even if they call themselves Muslims, but they are few and YOU aren’t even close to one of them. I don’t even know why you’re upset. As for praising the 9/11 attacks, someone had to do it! I admit there were Muslims among the dead, but they weren’t the targets and the fact is that the Muslim population in hostile countries needs to leave. Muslims need to leave ALL areas hostile to Islam and Muslims… or stay and fight back. Peacefully living in the US while they kill Muslims is WRONG if you’re not planning on leaving! You may not agree but you can ask the authors of Inshallahshaheed for the proofs and they’ll give it to you.
    You people are sick and blood thirsty. Yeah, we’re sick of Muslims dying and losing the deen in the meantime. And as for blood thirsty, I personally don’t find the scent of blood appetizing, but Khalid Bin Walid tell the Romans “We are a people who drink blood, and we heard that Roman blood is the sweetest!”

  14. Baraa Business on November 12, 2007

    People like Samir Khan DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. This was your brain on drugs.
    A true believer would have absolute confidence in the unrivaled power of God and God’s judgment. God is all powerful; to claim that you’re “doing God’s work” by writing some silly blog is completely heretical. First, it’s heresy to claim that you know God’s will. Second, it’s heresy to claim that God is so weak and pathetic that he desperately needs your blog.
    He never doubted Allah’s power, he routinely prays that Allah will destroy His enemies with forces of nature at His disposal. And not one of the authors ever said Allah needed that blog. It’s we Muslims, you and me, who needed it!
    What is a few years on this planet versus an eternal life with God? Obviously, any number divided by infity equals zero, so the answer is nothing. But Allah owns the earth and yet the human beings placed in charge are violating the trust and attempting to rival Allah! And since we all live in Allah’s earth, why not take risks in it and confront the tyrants who rule by other than the Shariah when they know better? He’s trading the worthless in for the infintely valuable by obeying Allah’s command to speak the truth to tyrants. The rest of us are sitting in front of our telvisions with dhikr beads and crying that Allah spare us all hardship in this life and STILL give us jannah in the next life!
    The same is true for the people you call disbelievers. If they don’t believe and they aren’t acting in accordance with God’s teachings, it’s not your concern: God will deal with it. It might be that Allah will punish them at your hands. As it is now, Allah is warning Muslims and non-Muslims alike at Khan’s and his co-authors’ fingertips. If they ignore the warning it’s on them. If we ignore the warning it’s on us. Those who heed the warnings do so at their own benefit. And, no, Allah will not deal with them if we don’t try. That would be changing the condition of a people before they change what is in themsleves. And right now what is in us is a fear to confront today’s Namrud wal Fir’awn.
    Don’t bother replying here, I won’t be back to read this crap anymore.

  15. awake on November 16, 2007

    The education in this thread into the mind of the devout Muslim is invaluable.

    Bravo boys. With each utterance, you validate the necessity for the likes of Robert Spencer’s very existence.

    My sincerest thanks.

  16. Abdur-Rahman M on November 20, 2007

    @ awake

    The extremists are out of their mind. The rest of us do no condone their senseless bloodlusting

  17. awake on November 20, 2007

    Abdur,

    Obviously understood. If the majority of Muslims were like Khan, there would be a global war far beyond the likes that we see today.

    That being said, the “extremists” like Khan are not a fringe movement in the Islamic community. Their numbers are bigger than anyone would care to admit. Also, they believe that they are the ones practicing true Islam and that people like Sameer and yourself are the heretics.

    They use the canonical Islamic texts, with their interpretation, again supported by many Islamic scholars, to further their cause of Islamic dominance and the global implementation of Sharia. One need only listen to their words to understand that.

    “Moderate” Muslims need to acknowledge this reality, especially certain tenets of the Islamic texts as the impetus behind the rationale of the Khans of this world, and their ilk.

  18. Abdur-Rahman M on November 20, 2007

    Awake,

    I beg to differ. On a daily basis here in the US, it is extremely rare that I meet individuals such as Sameer Khan spouting their non-sense, foaming at the mouth and howling at the moon about how they wish that the world would burn and want to kill people. The Muslims that I know - and I have been Muslim for over 20 years - are people that want to work in the community and help to improve it. It is deranged figures like Samir Khan that think that Islam is about destruction and not building and cooperation. As Tariq Nelson said in one of his posts, I believe in an Islam of love and compassion and not one of maniacal hatred. People in Khan’s group despise concepts like love, compassion and kindness.

    Now, they may seem scholarly because they are quoting from here and there, but I can assure you that they are pulling quotes out of their butts. You can’t find me anywhere that in Islam it says that you can walk into a school and slaughter children and such evil that we find with this group. There is a context and a tafseer for the ayat and hadith and Muslims do not understand ayats of war to mean - as figures like Khan do - that we can just go out into the streets like madmen and start slaughtering people. That is complete madness.

    Brother Sameer Parker has done a good job of compiling scholars who understand the ayats and hadith BETTER than Sameer Khan does and have context and meaning.

    I pray that people like Sameer come to their senses and see that Islam is not the fire breathing religion that they think it is. Normal human beings just can’t live their lives in constant hatred of others and wanting to live for bloodlust.

  19. Abdur-Rahman M on November 20, 2007

    @ awake

    On these maniacs…some men aren’t looking for anything logical. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the burn

  20. awake on November 20, 2007

    Abdur,

    Agreed on your last statement. The US is quite a bit more insulated from the Islamists at the moment, but even on Tariq’s blog, the post that I read and commented on, there is more than a few who call him a heretic.

    I never implied they were the mojority voice, especially here in the US, just that they exist in greater numbers than is admitted, also that the canonical Islamic texts serve as their impetus, and as you put it, cannot be reasoned with.

  21. Eliza on November 21, 2007

    Yes, the extremists are the ones making sense. The people saying Islam is peaceful are the ones that sound deluded.

    This has been going on for centuries. The logical outcome of using a murderous bandit as a role model.

  22. Eliza on November 21, 2007

    So tell us why Islam is a peaceful thing.

    Tell us in a manner that doesn’t make you look like a deluded dreamer who believed an imam or other muslim when they told you “this is straight from God.”

  23. Rasheed Gonzales on November 22, 2007

    So tell us why Islam is a peaceful thing.

    Of what use would that be? Trying to explain these things to you would be like talking to a wall. You’ve already made up your mind about Islam and Muslims and nothing anyone tells you will change it.

  24. Eliza on November 23, 2007

    It is standard on these blogs to deny that Islam hasn’t been churning out violence, against itself as well as the infidels, for centuries.

    Nobody I’ve seen so far has come up with a reason why it should be considered a peaceful, benign thing.

    Ugly fantasies about killing Jews. Mo poisoned by a woman whose relatives he had killed. Just two sordid examples.

  25. Abdur-Rahman M on November 23, 2007

    Eliza,

    I have none of these ugly fantasies that you are talking about. Only the wackos on these forums that call for bloodlust do such a thing. I am free from all of that

  26. Eliza on November 23, 2007

    Are you a convert? if so, why have you associated yourself with this thing?

    It is Islam itself that dreams of killing Jews. It is a dream of subjugation and conquest, domination and submission. The wackos are the ones following it.

    So tell me and the wackos why they are wrong.

  27. Aboo Uthmaan on November 24, 2007

    It seems Eliza knows better what Islam teaches than Muslims themselves!

  28. Rasheed Gonzales on November 25, 2007

    Classic Orientalist mentality.

  29. Eliza on November 25, 2007

    from hayat at globalvoicesonline. i guess she’s an orientalist too:

    Since I was small I have been taught that Islam is a religion of tolerance, through daily instruction which I received in school or at home. But when I grew older I naturally rushed because of this contradictory reality of this idea to search for the truth as to whether Islam is really the faith of tolerance.

    Some people will find that just thinking or researching or discussing this subject is an attack on Islam or scepticism about it, and some may decide I am an unbeliever or develop hate for me. Some might say that this reaction (of intolerance) is not a general one amongst all Muslims, and I agree with them. However I see the majority this way, and history and the present bear witness to the fact that Islam has a blood-soaked history because it did not accept others.

  30. Rasheed Gonzales on November 25, 2007

    i guess she’s an orientalist too

    Having an Orientalist mentality doesn’t make you an Orientalist.

    Secondly, there’s quite a difference between what you’ve quoted from that person, and what you yourself post to this site.

  31. Eliza on November 28, 2007

    You know, Rash, reading history has caused me to wonder if the multitudes of peaceful people of goodwill have any impact at all.

  32. Rasheed Gonzales on November 28, 2007

    The name is Rasheed. It would nice if you’d be courteous enough to use it.

  33. Eliza on November 29, 2007

    Ekh, I couldn’t resist.

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